Round 9

[a hot fucking mess]

Skylar hurting Sam was a lot different than this. This is a blow to Sam's character, not a blow to Sam's time and energy and dedication. Sam knows he doesn't have the best character, and I really don't think he will be hurt by this for more than ten seconds. Now, the 12th place thing, yeah he'll probs cry over but he's a widdle bby so that's okay. The slut thing and the dirty Grindr thing he won't be upset over because he feels the same way and he stopped being a slut for a while because he hated what it did to him but now he's back being a Grindr whore so he knows he's vile and disgusting so Thiago thinking so won't hurt him.

IDK Maybe knowing Sam since before either of us knew what ORGs even were has led me to a false sense of who Sam is because in my mind he's a totally different person (aka he's a huge whore who will ditch his friends from other countries in the middle of skype video calls to have sex with someone he has never met before), but I think he's stronger than to let this affect him much.

IDK.

[Lucunt🍻🔫Ԇ]

I totally disagree as well. There is a difference between lying in a game and manipulating emotions in a game. What Thiago is doing is completely crossing a line. I don't care if he's playing the game. Ellen is right, you can lie and manipulate and still get what you want, but to take it to that extreme is very vile and really spurs my opinion of Thiago to some extent.

The other thing is Thiago acknowledges Sam is emotional, he has referenced it and called him hormonal as well. Thiago is completely aware of it and its just sick. I really can't. I get your point of view Emily but I just disagree with it 1000000%.

[Morgan]

I agree that Thiago has stretched the bounds of what we've seen to be appropriate behavior in ORGs. It reminds me of old school ORG playing back in the 2005-2008 era and it was really vicious. It's what he's conditioned to.

My first thought when reading this was to analyze if this stretches within the bounds of the game. I believe that it does, in the sense that Sam has made an adult decision to play a game where there are no limits to lying. I ask that everyone stay out of it as best they can, as (from my personal experience) I think that when other players find out they might intervene. Nevertheless, there is no way in hell Thiago is going to win now. He's playing in a different era.

[michael]

I still like Thiago ...

[dominic]

May 11, 2013 0:58:07 GMT -5 liam said:

"It's a blindfold kick back type of a game
Called the Kansas City Shuffle
Whereas you look left and they fall right
Into the Kansas City Shuffle.
It's a they think you think they don't know type of Kansas city hustle
Where you take your time, wait your turn and hang them up and out to dry"


Well, having killed much time reading the TV Tropes page on The Kansas City Shuffle, I feel now is a perfect time to bring it up.

Basically, what the Kansas City Shuffle is, is when you're trying to pull a con game on someone, they know you're pulling a con game on them, they think they've got it figured out, but in trying to prevent the con, they actually allow you to pull off the real con.

For example: You tell your business rival that you have insider information that a business is going to flop. They think you're trying to trick you, so they invest heavily in the business.

In reality, you've set up a new fake finance firm that took all the money they sent to invest, knowing that they would never believe you about the failing business.

What does this have to do with Survivor? The entire game is a con game. There's only one winner, so everybody is trying to screw everyone else over to a certain degree. The thing is, everybody knows this too, so somebody is probably going to fall prey to the Kansas City Shuffle.

Specifically, I was thinking about idols. Let's say I tell you, "we're voting for Zac". You think, alright they're trying to trick us, so they aren't voting for Zac. In reality, we all vote for Zac when you play the idol on someone else.

I'm not saying we're voting for Zac, btw, this is just an example.

So, we've got a game where everybody is looking out for themselves, trying to trick everyone else in to helping them, and somebody is going to lose this round. To quote Lucky Number Slevin... "You can't have a 'Kansas City Shuffle' without a body".

Lol this is such a desperate attempt for an episode title. And it would be a good one too of their plan works. However, I think Chad leaving is more of a possibility, so "Kansas City Shuffle" doesn't make much sense.

[Lucunt🍻🔫Ԇ]

It looks like they (The Favs) are gonna vote Mark.

[emily]

Kind of his own fault, he overplayed... but he feels like he can since he has 7 wins on his name 0.o

[ellen]

Yeah the doctoring of IMs was pretty sloppy... I guess we'll see if it ties or if Chad shoots himself in the foot by voting otherwise.

[Jessica]

Eh, I'm with Emily on this one. It's a game, and it's a game about lying to people. Everything is permissible.

Yes, Thaigo's a terrible person, and there's no moral defence for his actions, but I don't think the "it's okay to lie but it's not okay to manipulate emotions" argument holds any water. Every time you make someone believe you're with them when you aren't, that's a form of emotional manipulation. It's nearly impossible to lie without there being some emotional component being attached (I would probably have said that it was completely impossible a while ago, but Hannah and I actually spent a good deal of time straight-up lying to each other and somehow because we knew it was baloney it had absolutely zero negative impact on our emotions towards another), and I don't think that any of us is qualified to draw whatever line Thiago is supposedly crossing here. (And bear in mind, this is coming off of three years of studying ethics).

In terms of strategy, Thiago's an idiot. If news of this gets out, he's done. While I just argued that there's no moral grounds for us to condemn him, I daresay that there's still a moral event horizon wherein if you're too much of a bastard the jury will never vote for you. Thiago's got that horizon in his rearview mirror right now, and he's unapologetically accelerating.

[Jessica]

May 11, 2013 18:42:32 GMT -5 emily said:

Kind of his own fault, he overplayed... but he feels like he can since he has 7 wins on his name 0.o

Eh, I don't understand the logic of that. I feel like it doesn't matter how many times you've won, every game's a new experience.

[ellen]

Thiago is a dear friend of mine, I've known him for years; I'm the reason he applied and I absolutely don't condemn what he did, even if I do think it was a shitty thing to do. It isn't my place to judge him, although watching something like that does makes me feel uncomfortable. I don't think he's a horrible person. I also don't think that what he's done warrants removal from the game or anything in that vein. He hasn't broken any game rules and I don't think anyone is saying that he is.

But if, as you say, certain actions pretty much guarantee someone a loss at FTC, then what is the real purpose doing them in the first place? One plays to outwit, for the ultimate purpose of winning the game, but if something is so reprehensible that no jury would vote for a player to win because of it, that to me seems senseless. So yes, of course a contestant is allowed to use tactics such as these, but what real purpose does it serve? Potentially humiliating another human being in this case? Okay, go for it, but the whole, "it was a game," argument doesn't exactly hold up anymore when it comes to explaining why one would do something like that to begin with.

I feel like Thiago really believed that it was good (albeit devious) gameplay at the time, but I think his contempt for Chad got in the actual way of that and resulted in this instead.

[dominic]

[dominic]

This round is SUCH a clusterfuck, but it looks like Chad is getting 12th :x Gloria spilled the vote to Thiago and he's idoling Mark.

This is definitely new. I don't think Sam's been idol'd before? So at least we're changing it up a bit.

[emily]

May 11, 2013 19:09:47 GMT -5 Jessica said:

In terms of strategy, Thiago's an idiot. If news of this gets out, he's done. While I just argued that there's no moral grounds for us to condemn him, I daresay that there's still a moral event horizon wherein if you're too much of a bastard the jury will never vote for you. Thiago's got that horizon in his rearview mirror right now, and he's unapologetically accelerating.

I thought T actually cooled down and went a different path and hence didn't see him 'accelerating'. Until I saw his parchment. That's the one thing that I find extremely unnecessary about all of this.


*and yeah I didn't understand Mark's logic either, but he seemed to kinda use that logic lol.

[aj]

Thiago's vote is disgusting....ew. Also why is Gloria telling Thiago about the plan? Is that a good move?