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Post by knox on May 30, 2013 19:31:57 GMT -5
Hello to all three of you, it's nice to see all of you sitting here at the Final Three. I was definitively hoping this would be the final three so I'm pleased. Congratulations, regardless of anything anyone says all three of you made it to where none of us did, so ignore the haters.
Now it might seem obvious that my vote is made up, but unlike other jurors I believe that it's important to give everyone a shot. All three of you have an equal shot at my vote so don't take mine or other questions as a joke since that will determine my vote.
Something to note: please be honest, sugar coating will make me not vote for you.
Zac, you were a nice guy. I enjoyed playing with you and our conversations. I, however, believe that your SUPER UTR game earned you a spot, but I don't think it's because you did too much but because these guys were trying to use you as a goat. Please explain to me and the jury why we should actually take you seriously as a competitor as opposed to writing you off.
Thiago, I am happy you're here. I think you played a great game and I thought we had a strong bond. However after being voted out I found out a lot of stuff you said about me, negativity and your poor opinion on me and my game. Needless to say I am not impressed. Tell me why I should reward you with my vote when you have clearly no respect for me as a person or my game and because you attempted to use my 'friendship'. Also, out of sheer curiosity when you kept insisting about four boys to the end early into the merge, how serious we're you about it? Did you really want that until I rejected the plan, or were you just trying to bait me all along?
Mark, throughout this game you were my boy all along. I have to say I am a little disappointed I was not your number one, but I'm not bitter. Shit happens and I think we created a good relationship that will last beyond this game. I respect your game a lot, but I am starting to think it depended a lot on what Thiago wanted to do. I want you to tell me what you did by yourself and also list the times you and Thiago disagreed, why and who came out on top.
My questions besides the ones up there are meant to show how much you really knew about the game. In a game like survivor knowledge is power, not only do you have to know what's going on in the game but what each player is thinking.
I want you guys to list all the players you interacted with in the game. Tell me their strategy coming into the game, how it changed as the game progressed, who their key allies were, their main threats/enemies, what their biggest mistake was, and their downfall.
As a second part of my questioning I want you to list those same people above and tell me EXACTLY what role they had in your game. I want to hear a very good analysis so that I (and other jurors) can see exactly how you played this game by using other people.
Finally I have an easy question. There has been a lot of animosity towards me, as a player and a person I believe in growth so I want you explain to me why you think I am getting such animosity.
I might have more to say as a response to stuff, but for now I think this is enough work. Sorry it's s lot but I genuinely believe your answers will help me determine who is the best player (thus getting my vote).
Good luck to all three of you, I look forward to your answers.
~Knox
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Post by Zac on May 30, 2013 23:22:00 GMT -5
Thanks Knox! And thanks for the opportunity to explain why you shouldn't just write me off. My goal was to make final 3 and regardless of how I got here, I got here. Obviously I would also love to win. I was never truly in any danger of leaving because of the relationships that I had with people. Like I said in my opening statement, I never intended to play an UTR game, but I felt that was the best style for me to adopt, with so many big personalities and some real-life limitations. I did contribute in tribe challenges but if I had excelled in challenges post-merge, I would be viewed as a threat, and more than likely targeted because of it. And since I didn't have a lot of time to devote to every challenge, looking like I sucked would help keep me here longer. I had opportunities to flip on my allies, but I didn't see how that would help my position. I wanted people to trust me and they did. I stayed loyal to the people that I had pledged my allegiance to. I didn't vote against Dion, I didn't vote against you, I didn't vote against Starr. I only voted against Gabe and Bree because I had no other option. And Starr/Bree and I never had anything beyond getting the fans to the end. I was agreeable with people, because I didn't want things turned on me...as long as I wasn't leaving, I didn't really care who was. Maybe that was playing it safe, but it set me up to get the end. Honestly, I wanted you here with me, because I thought that I had a good shot at beating you. But then we lost control of you  , and you were voted out. I was involved in a lot of the decision-making, and when I wasn't around, I made sure I knew what was happening. If there ever came a time that I felt that I was in danger, I'd consider changing things up, but it never had to happen. Turning on Mark and Thiago and Bree at final 6 or 7 wouldn't have helped me any. I never wanted to make enemies and I didn't have to. I was going to let Thiago and Mark take the fall. I knew that I wouldn't be able to win a lot of challenges, and I also didn't have to. People can say what they want about me and the game I played, but like you said, I'm here and they're not. The players I interacted with:Dion - key allies: Starr, Knox, Mark Main threat/enemy: Bree Strategy coming into the game was to be active, a strong competitor, a leader perhaps. As the game progressed, she lost control of what was happening on her tribe, and was blindsided. Her downfall was Pilar easily swaying her and lying about her vote. Thiago - key allies: Mark, Zac, Gabriel, Bree, Starr Main threat/enemy: Mark, Ben Strategy coming in: to be well-liked and trustworthy. Changed to a leader position on fans tribe. Downfall may be wanting to go to the end with Mark. Mark - key allies: Thiago, Zac, Knox, Bree Main threat/enemy: Ben, Bree strategy coming in was to ingratiate himself within the tribe, lay low. That changed when he started doing really well in competitions and almost became the leader of the new Reliquum tribe. Downfall may have been wanting to go to the end with Thiago. Knox - key allies: Mark, Zac, Gloria, Ben, Liam Strategy was to align with several people and stick by them. That sort of changed when he didn't tell his allies what he was planning and had Starr voted out. His main threat/enemy: himself. Downfall was becoming too involved with the favorites and being stubborn. Starr - key allies: Julian, Bree, Thiago, Mark Her strategy consisted of being nice to everyone (to their face ), even though she'd secretly be plotting their demise. That changed when it became about survival on the Farrago tribe and the merged tribe, when she wanted the favorites to all advance. Her main threat/enemy: Knox Downfall: Knox really took it personally when everyone voted Dion out without telling him and never trusted Starr. Julian - key allies: Bree, Starr Strategy involved having as many alliances as humanly possible. I don't think his strategy changed much, and his downfall was his strategy. It caught up to him. Main threat/enemy: the new Fan boys alliance Bree - key allies: Starr, Thiago, Mark Strategy: to be a broken english superstar. Get into a secret alliance that kept her from going home early. I think her strategy changed in the merge when it shifted to defeating all the favorites. Main threat/enemy: the favorites. Downfall: trusting Thiago and Mark to take her to the end. Reese - key allies: Pilar Strategy: to be social, changed to trying to survive the third judgement. Main threat/enemy: Starr Downfall: telling Pilar that the vote was going to be her during the previous round. Pilar - key allies: Reese strategy: To get in a majority alliance by putting the target on people who weren't there for the first battle. Changed to being devious and underhanded to try to avoid elimination. Main threat/enemy: Zac Downfall: making up lies about me. Ben - key allies: Gloria, Liam, Taylor strategy: to excel in challenges, form bonds with as many people as he could. Main threat/enemy: the fans Downfall: being a tough competitor, seen as a big threat. Liam - key allies: Gloria, Ben, Taylor strategy: to be the leader of the favorites. He was the last one left, so I don't know if that changed. His main threat/enemy: the fans Downfall: trying to flip the fans, but then deciding to try to vote them out Roles That These People Played:Dion - the mother hen, usually had a pretty good idea of what was going on in the beginning. helped get the votes turned around to keep Mark in the game, which in turned helped me. Thiago - kept me informed about a lot of things. Pretty much a liason to the favorites, so we had an idea of what they were planning. Mark - completely trusted Mark. And he trusted me as well. I did rely on a few people, and Mark was definitely one of them. Knox - another ally. Even after we all suspected he was responsible for Starr's elimination, I still wanted him to know that I trusted him. I did want him in the final 3 with me because I did think that I could beat him. Starr - she was a good ally post-merge, but also a threat that would go before I would. Julian - Julian having an alliance with everyone caused people to want him gone before someone like me. Bree - like Starr, another good ally post-merge and also someone that would be a target before me. Reese - almost an ally. Took the fall for Pilar after she was gone, saving everyone else from being voted out. Pilar - solidified my trust in people when she tried to get me voted out. Ben - if I had a relationship with a favorite (and Ben was easiest for me to talk to), then perhaps he could get other faves to keep me, especially if he felt that I might be willing to help him out. Liam - an option if I so chose to accept to work with him and Ben. But honestly, a vote that got me closer to where I am now. Why is there animosity towards you? I understand your reasons for wanting to work with the favorites, but I think that you could have timed it better. I don't have animosity towards you, but I was disappointed when you did that. But that was a game move, so I can respect that. As a person though, I don't know why someone would have animosity towards you. |
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Post by thiago on May 31, 2013 0:24:12 GMT -5
Hey Knox, thanks for your question man. Thanks for the kind words. Regarding you as a person, I often told people that I didn't really like you because I wanted to create the illusion that the fans were never super solid, so that the faves wouldn't keep voting together and we could have an easier time taking them out. My views on your gameplay are mixed. I respect that you were willing to make a move and that you were willing to play for yourself. However, I do think that strategically you made a poor decision by flipping for Gloria, someone you have a relationship with outside of this game. Maybe because I don't know anyone in this game that it bothered me when past relationships came into play for some of the Fans when we are supposed to be aliases. My ideal Final 7 was Starr/Bree/us 4 boys/Gloria. I know that at one point, around the Sacrifice when Bree has flipped, I wanted us 4 boys to be the F5 with Starr, and at the merge I wanted it to be us 4, genuinely. However, some things went down that changed everything. The morning after Starr was idol'd out, Mark came to me and told me that he was able to trick you into telling him that you were the one who told the Favourites who we were voting. He then told me that you demanded we vote for Taylor or else you would flip. He also told me that you wanted Bree gone and didn't trust me, and only trusted Mark/Zac. Both of us were pissed off. If I remember correctly, Mark said that he doesn't know where you get off being absent all the time yet think you can call the shots, so I would reconsider whether you think Mark really is your boy or not. At that point, we devised a plan to get you to vote for Taylor, and then to use Mark's idol at F8 when you would likely rejoin the Favorites and idol you out. I had also known from Gloria that she had 3 people in this game that she had emotional investment in; when I began to suspect that you both had something going on, I asked if one was Knox, and she gave me a non-answer. She had also previously told me that she was upset because she thinks she may have to vote me off, so I knew that you must have told the Favourites to target me next. At that point you became an enemy because you almost had me out. I decided to tell you that if we vote for Taylor at F9, we can vote for Bree the next round. At that point you perked up and agreed to it. I knew that you are not an irrational player, and you would lose a lot of jury votes and trust by taking me out, so I provided you with an option that would allow you to take out me or Bree without pissing people off. Of course, I had no intentions of voting off Bree the following round, but it was a way to secure your vote against Taylor so that we wouldn't have to worry about you as a free radical anymore. However, Liam made things easier for us. Liam sent me that PM revealing what I had already known, stating that you sold me out. I decided to show you, to secure your vote against the Favorites that round and distrust them. I also knew that by instigating an argument between you and Liam, I could easily have you target Liam the following round, which would remove your vote for the equation. If I could have you believe that Liam was going at F7, we could control the votes at the F8 by making the vote 4-3-1, as we did when voting Gloria off. I also asked both Gloria and Ben whether Liam or you were lying, to test them and see where they stood: Ben said Liam was honest, Gloria said you were honest. At that point I knew that Gloria had very strong loyalty to you, which made Gloria very dangerous. This also allowed me to keep you wary of Ben so that you would never rejoin the Favourites. In the round that you left, Mark wanted Liam to go, but I went against his wishes and voted you off with Bree. I primarily did this because I knew you would be a jury threat, but I also wanted to restrict Mark's options going into the end game. I knew that if I was in the F4 with you 3, I would be you, Knox's, target, and I also didn't want to risk losing Bree before the F4 and you/Mark/Zac could have easily done that if Liam had left. Onto your additional questions: NAOMI: She had no strong allies, although we both got along well; her downfall was not being social enough with key players in the game, and her place in my game was as a potential person who would not vote against me. Her main enemy ended up being Dion, who took her out. PILAR: She came into the game wanting to be a fierce stategist, but her fault was that she wasn't online enough to really manage anyone. Her allies were myself and Reese primarily. Her downfall was showing her true colours as a deceitful person when she randomly, and vapidly, threw Zac under the bus to save her own hide. She was also really pissed off with Dion. Her place in the game for me was as an informant, as she always readily gave me information, but she became a liability when she started to play irrationally: too hard, too fast. REESE: He wanted to play a loyal game and stick with a group. His primary ally was Pilar, and after Pilar left, it became Mark and myself. We contemplated taking Dion out that round because we swooped in and befriended Reese to see if he had use in our game, but in the end, it would have made too many waves to save Reese, so he had no place in my game. His biggest mistake was telling Pilar she was in danger, which showed everyone that his loyalty was with someone who was on the bottom, which is an easy reason to vote someone off. He always really wanted Bree gone because he felt she was unworthy. DION: She never had a place in my game because I found her too free willed and strong. I couldn't control her, or trust that she would give me information freely. Her main allies were Julian and Mark, but I also had a suspicion that she was close to you, Knox. Zac and Gabe were loosely tied to Dion also, but were willing to see her go. It was my idea to have Zac vote for Dion so that you, Knox, would not feel completely on the outs and we'd have someone you would trust who would inform us, so we could keep tabs on you and maybe bring you into our 4some (me/Mark/Zac/Gabe). Dion wanted to be a strong leader without being seen as a figurehead, strategizing behind the scenes and using her social abilities to befriend people. Essentially, Dion was playing a very similar game as me, which threatened my game. With Dion gone, Knox became a number on the boys' side. Her fatal flaw was not being in an alliance with me. TINA: She certainly was loose a few screws but it was rather endearing. I don't know if she came to win necessarily but I think she had less to prove as a character and more as a strategist. Her main ally was Chad, but was also loosely involved in the large alliance on Admonitio that excluded Taylor, Zoe, Laela, and partially Selena. Her fatal flaw was telling me that she didn't trust Gloria, which I used to tell Gloria to try and convince Gloria that she couldn't trust her own allies. Although I would have enjoyed having her stay longer, Tina never had a place in my game. She had control issues and I think she was a little too irrational to be a suitable ally for my style of playing. I think that her intense hatred for Starr caused her to be very narrow-minded. JULIAN: His allies were me/Bree/Starr/Dion/Mark. I think he probably had a relationship with you, Knox, also, but it was never as strong as his confirmed alliances. Julian came in wanting to play a quiet game but wanted to be in good strategic standing. He wanted to be the pendulum between two 4-person alliances with Starr: me/Bree/Starr/Julian and Julian/Starr/Dion/Mark. He had no place in my game when I learned this from Starr, and immediately emulated his clever strategy by forming my own group without overlapping players, which in of itself was very risky to keep a secret for 21 Judgments. His fatal flaw was double dealing early on. GABE: His main allies were Mark/Zac/myself. He came into the game very strategic, wanting to lay low but be friendly. He didn't want to make waves and he wanted to have a personal relationship with each player. He played a similar role to Mark and Zac in my game early on, but I began to question his loyalty when he began pushing for us to vote off Bree/Starr/Julian ASAP. His fatal flaw was not appearing more trustworthy and also being too smart. Mark himself said that between you and Gabe, he felt Gabe was more capable of playing a more deceptive game, which you certainly proved him wrong  CHAD: His main allies were Tina and Gloria, and to a lesser extent Bree/Starr/myself. He wanted to play a similar game but not screw up at the F13/F12 mark. His fatal flaw was being a force in challenges and being super social. I never found a place for Chad in my game unfortunately, so him leaving allowed me to not have to worry about his social magic powers. He did a great job of convincing Starr that he cared about her, when in reality it was clear that he was using her and had no emotional attachment to her. CARLY: Her main allies were Liam, Ben, and somewhat Taylor. She had an allaince with Gloria, Steph, and Beau that she sort of broke when choosing Taylor over Beau. She came in with something to prove, that she could be a force. She surrounded herself with strong guys that she knew she could trust and also found herself caught between some overlapping alliances on Admonitio. Unfortunately, being an original Admonitio, I never had any place for her in my game. Her fatal flaw was making Gloria distrust her after the Sacrifice, which didn't allow Gloria to use her idol to protect Carly. STARR: Her main allies were myself and Mark, Julian and Bree, somewhat Chad and Gloria. I think Starr had some side deals but those were her main peeps. She came into the game wanting to be a strategic force but allowing others to do her dirty work so she wouldn't be seen as the one pulling the strings. She always wanted to feel in control but as her nerves got to her, she could never attain that feeling of control and went a little nuts in the worry department, and almost cost herself the game when she tried to mend fences with Chad/Tina/Bree on issues they had outside the game, which backfired. Her fatal flaw was being too high profile and not being able to be patient; she had wanted to vote off Knox or Zac at the merge first and go with Farrago, but I fought to convince both her and Bree that we absolutely needed a Favourite to go first to keep the options open for the Fans, because as soon as we voted a Fan off, the Favourites would have the option to stick together and Pagong us if they wanted, and I wanted that ball in our court. Eventually being so high profile allowed the Favourites to think Starr was running the Fan show, when in reality it was myself. Her place in my game was as a solid ally that I could bounce ideas off of and also someone I knew was willing to take chances to play the game. TAYLOR: I really don't know anything about Taylor's intentions in the game, since we talked so rarely. I know that he was supposed to go when Beau left but instead Carly/Ben/Liam took him in and blindsided Beau/Steph/Selena. He never had a place in my game because he was an original Admonitio and didn't talk. GLORIA: Her main allies were honestly always very ambiguous to me. She was very tight lipped. I'd say that myself and Knox were high on her list, and Taylor/Ben became high priorities after the merge. I do think she had a close tie with Chad, but it only grew strongest while on Farrago. Her goal was to win this time, and not make any mistakes. However, she made an error by flipping on Tina, and telling me that Mark was the vote, because it allowed 2 Faves to go when a Fan could have handily left, especially when she had an idol. Her fatal flaw was being too stubborn with Liam and Ben for not listening to her at the merge and deciding not to use her idol, in combination with then later telling me the vote was on Mark. This allowed the Fans to take the lead in the game, and as a result of her poor timing with idol use, the Faves could never recover. She did have a place in my game on Farrago because we got along very well, and I hoped for a long time that she would at one point serve a purpose in my game at the merge so I wouldn't have to vote for her, but she became such a force in challenges and idol finding that she had to leave. We would have been stupid to keep her in. KNOX: Your main allies were Mark, Zac, Dion, and to a lesser extent myself. You came into the game hoping to play a silent mastermind role but you were never able to fulfill this niche because many other alliances were going on that you were not a member of. Instead, you were forced to play low-key and be patient until the merge when you could work with someone you knew, Gloria, and start to really play hard and prove to people that you were a force. Many times in my confessional I stated that you were capable of being a dark horse deviant and you proved me right. Your fatal mistake wasn't for ratting out how the fans were voting, but it was voting off Taylor, which caused you to lose all control. Your place in my game was as a number on my fan boy side alliance, and eventually as a possible goat in the Final 3, or at least someone who was weaker in challenges, however when you started making moves I realized that there was no way you would be a goat and could easily make power plays with Mark/Zac and I wanted to have full control over them both. BEN: I definitely think that after last game, Ben had some serious trust issues. However, being social, he was able to be well placed in his tribe and found himself in a dominant alliance. His main allies were Liam, Carly, Gloria, and to a lesser extent Taylor. After Chad was booted, Ben had to depend on challenges and idols to stay alive because he was such an all around threat and he knew it. His fatal flaw in the game was making Gloria not feel as involved in the decision of who to vote for at the F12 Judgment, which caused her not to play her idol, allowing the Faves to lose their numbers. He never had a place in my game given he was an original Admonitio. LIAM: He played similar to Ben pre-merge in my opinion, maybe less social but with the same intentions of improving upon his last appearance. He wanted to be direct and more social than before, without appearing intimidating, His main allies were Ben, Carly, and Taylor. His fatal flaw was being too honest, and also the same as Ben with not making Gloria feel she should use her idol to help them. He, like Ben, didn't have a place in my game because he was an original Admonitio: the enemy. As the game progressed he became more honest and always fought to survive, and became more loose with information to try and regain control of the game. BREE: She came into the game wanting to play up an alias that would seem non-threatening, likable, and naive. However, mid way through the game she had to drop her schtick with people because she realized that she was hindering her ability to freely strategize with folks. As a result of her schticking, people did not enjoy their conversations with her and she was often the target of many votes. She knows what her fatal mistake was: voting for Starr while on Farrago. Although I swooped in to protect Bree when Gloria wanted to throw the challenge on Farrago to take Bree out, allowing the Fans to once again keep their numbers, I could still not fully trust Bree until later in the game. Her stepping outside the game to make a decision to vote for Starr resulted in her having even Starr wanting her gone. Her place in my game was as another Fan voting number, and eventually became a confidant. ZAC: His main allies were Mark and myself, Knox also, and Dion and Gabe before the merge. He came into the game very nervous, wanting to find some strategic footing and ride it to the end, while being a likable, unoffensive personality. As the game progressed and he became less social, he had less knowledge of what was going on and relied solely on what Mark and myself told him to do and vote, because he wasn't around enough to really maneuver or make any plays. His place in my game was simply as a loyal vote, and also as someone I knew had completely faith in me and would not vote me off. His mistake in the game was losing activity as the game went on, and not the other way around. I think he got very comfortable. MARK: His main allies were myself first and foremost, then Zac, and also Knox and Gabe. Pre-jury, to a lesser extent with Reese, Julian, and Dion. He had a bad start because he wasn't able to be online during Day 1 and the game moved so quickly. He eventually decided to lay low and be social, when I picked him up and began to make things happen for us. During the merge, he used conversations with people that he got when they felt they could trust him, and he would spread it to people who he knew would be upset by what they said. He was unwaveringly loyal to me and told me absolutely everything, and his place in my game was as a friend and strong alliance partner. He asked me before making many decisions, so I knew that he was someone who I could predict as a player. His mistake in the game was playing for both him and myself, when I was playing only for myself. Your final question: I think any animosity is a result of you turning on the Fans when you had a solid ticket to at least the F4, and then flipping back to the Fans when you felt that you could betray Bree/myself without having to do it all on your own (i.e. when I told you we could vote for Bree after Taylor). I think it was viewed as unnecessary. Also, you forced the Fans to vote for Carly because, if we didn't, it would have been 5-5-1. The following round you gave as your reasoning for flipping that no one listened to you, when indeed we all listened to you and voted for Carly! However, I respect that you were playing the game for yourself and yourself only, much like I was. I don't think any "personal" animosity is warranted, as it's just a game; however, I can see why "strategically" people would be peeved with you, myself included! Thanks for your question and let me know if you want a follow up. I understand that you gave a list of points you wanted us to hit on, such as enemies/threats, so I tried to incorporate what I knew about that players so it would be more of an analysis rather than simply a break down of each category you stated, if that's okay. |
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Post by knox on May 31, 2013 0:44:00 GMT -5
Thanks Zac and Thiago. I will wait for Mark until I make a couple of comments since I don't want to affect his answers. But I wanted to acknowledge that I have read both of your answers and that I appreciate it.
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Post by mark on May 31, 2013 10:45:18 GMT -5
Hey, Knox. I just want to preface this by saying I don't put much into opening statements. You guys will have plenty to read in the coming questions, so I won't bore you with all the details of what I think you should know. I figure what you want to know will be fleshed out in the questions, and a concise, to the point opener should suffice. I may be wrong in that, but it was it is. Whereas some people are trying to spell out their entire game with their opener, I don't feel like I have much to prove or convince you of that won't speak for itself in the questioning.
You're absolutely right, we did create a bond that will move beyond this game, and it's refreshing for me to finally know you as you and not just as a player. I think you not being my number one had nothing to do with you as a person but all to do with the time that was spent together. I could always reach Thiago to knock around ideas and we talked and strategized literally all day long...every day. But you, I had to wait till you randomly appeared or had the time to respond to PM's. And mainly because of your relative scarcity, it was harder for me to fully put my trust in you. I couldn't fully put my thumb on what you were thinking, particularly in the early stages of the game where Dion was concerned. And of course as Thiago so aptly pointed out, later on in the game it was grating that you could be gone for hours at a time and then come back and put up a fuss about who the vote is. Knowing what I know now, that's how you play the game, and, well, "list bottoms" reflect what I feel about that sort of game play. I appreicate a game that can be more adaptable with a respect to strategy over a moral code. You know as well as I do that sometimes the moral code can alienate allies and hinder one's own game. Case in point, why on earth would anyone vote for Taylor or Carly the first vote out of the merge when Chad had proven himself a suave, charming, social, aggressive, challenge force? It's just just good, simple strategy. You being my boy or not has no bearings on what we agree or disagree about good gaming. So, I will make that clear right now.
As far as Thiago and I are concerned, I don't think we disagreed on anything. We had a relationship that simply clicked from the very start, and if I'm to be honest, I think we almost shared the same brain. You'll see in my confessionals that I would come up with an idea, and then Thiago would voice it to me. Literally all game, I was telling him to get out of my head. So there were no disputes that caused either of us to come out on top of the other. But at the same time, everything was not geared toward what Thiago wanted to do. Everything was geared toward what would get us to the end, period. If you want to get technical, it was the people that I was closest to that Thiago conceded to go to the end with, in that his betrayal of Bree and Starr would have hurt more loudly. He also had to betray Gloria when he could have very well worked with her, too. The whole thing was set up to where I didn't really have to betray anyone, though I got closer to Bree and Starr towards the end than I had expected. But I call a fallacy in Thiago claiming to have played this game for himself, and himself alone. He had many connections. He may not have needed me to get to the end. Yet he fought for us to get to the end. He played his apple on me. He gave me the task of finding more fish when he couldn't after hours and hours of searching find the final 2. I found them with ease. Granted they were only 2 of the 10 but they were pretty easy to find. So the sword stayed in my pocket. Thiago acts like I only fed him information. That street runs two ways. He gave me information everyday. I knew everything that happened on Farrago. I knew everything that was going on with Gloria. I had always known what Culture4 was doing. I always knew where Bree or Starr was going to turn. And at one point, I felt like I was going to have to sedate Thiago during the days of Ferrago because of his paranoia. But because his role was a more of a front seat social player, and mine was more of a backseat, behind the scenes player, he appeared to have been in charge. Even to his own delusions. We couldn't both play the same role or we'd have been uncovered. And also, I was the glue to his relationship with you or else the two of you would have imploded. He he not had me around, I think you would have flipped no questions asked, and he would have been the first gone. Correct me if I'm wrong. But I said all that to say, that Thiago did not only play for himself. Let's call a spade a spade. One of our last game conversations went like this:
Mark: (regarding the final 4 vote after he had told me Bree was pushing to vote me out over Zac) I, for the first time in this game, feel very vulnerable. Are you considering voting me out?
Thiago: Why would you even ask that? Voting you out would go against everything I've worked for in this game.
Why would voting me out go against everything he'd worked for? Because he was working toward getting us to the end. We had discussed it all throughout the game, and I think his decisions and actions throughout only speak to that. Besides, voting Bree, a proven emotional and volatile player over me, a proven neither of those things, was only an endangerment to himself in the end game. We knew Bree would be bitter. We knew I would appreciate good game. Thiago woudl have gotten my vote hands down over Bree and Zac.
There were many things I did on my own, apart from Thiago. Unless I'm just blinded by my own grandeur, I set up Dion to get voted out. This was not so Thiago wouldn't have to betray his Culture4 prematurely, but mainly so I could be closer to you and Zac. I couldn't fully trust Dion, and I wasn't sure what you guys' relation to her was, so I needed her out of the picture. The previous round, when I noticed that she would cave easily, I got an idea that was almost sure fire to get her out. I told Reese that he was the target, taking a huge risk, and I pointed him toward Dion to "save" him, telling him she was the one who could do it. So he did, and what happened but she caved, and even went as far as to vote with him. So I used that for all it was worth, knowing even as early as that how Bree would react, the plan went off without a hitch.
I also went against what Thiago wanted and voted out Gabe instead of you because I trusted you more. I gave Zac the authority in that because I knew he would pick you, and I wanted him to know that I trusted him completely to make that decision. Thiago wasn't happy about that decision even though it never came to an actual disagreement between us. And let's make this clear, I didn't say that Gabe was more capable of deceiving us than you were. I said he *may* have been more capable of pulling it off. You didn't pull it off so well with your, in your face, judgment answers and your retisence to vote of stronger players over inactives. And let's face it, the night Starr left, the elephant was standing in the room when you and I talked that night, and when you made ZERO acknowledgment of it, I knew at once that you had something to do with it. I don't know about the trickery Thiago speaks, it's just common sense. I knew I could get it out of you because I knew and you knew. I don't think we really needed Liam's fateful play of throwing you under the bus because I had already caught up on it. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.
Another time I went outside of Thiago was at the merge when I went hog wild with sloppy gaming. We had two idols at our disposal, and Thiago didn't want to use them so soon. But as I knew a 6-6 tie was looming, I was far more comfortable getting a target on myself so I would have to use that idol rather than taking a gamble, thus controlling the vote. I flirted. I told secrets. I made up conversations. I jumped on the favorites willy nilly. I did it all for a purpose, and this was all without Thiago's consent or advice. Though he enjoyed it, too. I own it all, I was a douche that round.
I also went and helped Ben win immunity. Once so that Gloria would not be immune so we could vote her out. I think it made Thiago a little uneasy because he actually confronted me about letting my heart strings get in the way of voting Ben out.
Other than these instances, we were pretty much on the same page about everything. And it wasn't because either one of us was necessarily conceding to the other...we literally share the same brain. But let's make no mistake. Voting you out did not give Thiago sole control over Zac and I. At that point I wanted Liam for the sake of a possible sword, but voting you out changed none of the plans that Thiago and I BOTH were working toward. Had I wanted to go a different route and pull the rug out from under Thiago, I had a close enough bond with Ben to make that happen with or without you.
On to my interatcions:
Reese: His main ally was Pilar. Other than that, he was a free agent, and I picked up on that quickly. I don't think he had any enemies, per se, he just didn't have any connections and because he defended Pilar, which was his biggest mistake that led to his downfall. I used him in this game as pawn to get Dion out. As far as I could tell, his strategy coming into the game was simply to be likable and fun-loving. Had he been able to stick around, he most definitely would have been a close ally because we hit it off well, and his own words to me were: "I'm ready to trust the shit out of you." I had never heard it put quite like that before in all my years of gaming.
Dion: Her main allies were Zac, Knox, Julian, Gabe, myself. I glean her allies based on how she came to me inviting me into an alliance with Julian, and how the other three guys would defend her in conversation. I believe her strategy coming in was to play a silent leader, using her connections both on our tribe and Admonitio. I knew she had connections over there because she knew what had happened with the first sword, which aside from the power she had shown to get the vote off me and on to Naomi made me very suspicious. Her biggest mistake was saving me the first vote. Her downfall was wavering with the last person to talk to her before the vote. I used her in my game for information on the lay of the land in our original tribe, and to solidify the guys (Zac/Knox/Gabe) more closely to my side.
Julian: His main allies were Starr, Bree, Thiago, Dion. There is no other way to put it than how Zac and Thiago have already answered. He came in to this game thinking he could juggle multiple alliances out of the gate and being a power player. His mistake was not reaching out to others in the tribe as closely. You have to have some semblance of unity in the face of twists and swaps, and he had no thought for that. His downfall was going from outright targeting me, to outright aligning with me at the sacrifice twist because there was no way I was going to work with him at the dissolving of his alliance. He had no place in my game, and I didn't use him for anything.
Gabe: His main allies were Zac, Knox, Thiago, myself, possibly Dion. I think he came in playing a low key game. He didn't try to put himself in a position of power, but he was aggressive in solidifying himself an alliance. Out of nowhere he pulled Zac and I in a chat when nothing had previously been discussed between the three of us. I feel like his strategy was to come unleashed at the first hint of power. His main mistake was not being around as much during the first portions of the game when I was scrambling to stay alive. That is when I connected more with Zac and Knox, which I guess would utlimately lead to his downfall. On Reliquum, we had no other options, so I opted for who I trusted more and trusted to be able to handle better in the merge. Gabe would have been a solid ally for me, had he stayed, and during his time in the game he was nothing less than that.
Chad: His main allies were Carly, Liam, Ben, Gloria, Starr, Bree, Thiago...see, he was well connected! And I believe he came into this game as a power player, a challenge beast, a charmer. He had all the social graces to do it, so why not flaunt it? His biggest mistake was not covering his prowess. I felt his power from across tribal lines before even meeting him, and sometimes you just have to hide it. His downfall was probably not taking Gloria's input into consideration. Gloria is a smart cookie, and if she had been listened to, I'm pretty sure that 3 favorites would be sitting right here. If anyone else had been targeted but me, I think the fans would have lost out. I used him to rile up animosity towards me so that I could possibly make myself the target. With 2 idols at my disposal, I wanted to know that I would have to use it in that first vote. I used him to (try to) sew some seeds of discord among the favorites.
Carly: Her main allies were Liam, Ben, Taylor...to a lesser extent Gloria, Chad. I don't know if her strategy coming in was to be purposefully UTR, or if she was literally too busy. But based on the arguments she gave me to flip I believe she was more of the strategic glue to the favorite alliance. Her downfall and biggest mistake was not investing much into this game post-merge. She had no place in my game.
Starr: Her main allies were Bree, Julian, Thiago, Chad, Gloria, myself. She was high profile. She was a high profile as I came scrambling into the game as one of the first people I turned to. I believe her strategy was to be well-connected, to be well-liked, and to be the hub of strategy. But I also think that was her fatal mistake, bringing about her downfall. Had she not been fresh on everyone's minds, she may not have been the target when Gloria pulled out her sword. Starr was a solid ally in my game, moreso in the merge than before. On Reliquum she was in an alliance that didn't include me though we grew much closer right before the sacrifice twist, and she was honest about Julian's intents. Throughout the merge I grew much closer to her in that the end game was a lot foggier than it was before. Most of the merge was spent trying to keep our upper hand over the favorites, but had we all been able to get to the end together, I don't know what would have really happened, and we didn't get a chance to find out. Initial plans were always to go the final 3 with Zac and Thiago, though.
Taylor: His main allies were Liam, Carly, Ben, Gloria. I couldn't tell you what his strategy was. I don't think he cared about this game. He didn't even bother with any of the merge challenges. I used him as part of my attempt to sew discord about Chad, but other than that, he was nothing to me game. Just fodder to keep you, Knox, with us really.
Gloria: Her main allies were Ben, Knox, Liam, Taylor, Thiago. I believe her strategy was to be a silent powerhouse, and she most definitely was that. I feared her more than any of the favorites, and I feared her way back when Farrago was formed and Thiago would tell me all about her. I think her biggest mistake was being so quiet. I believe you have to open up to a degree more than you are comfortable with to get people to trust you, and it was impossible getting her to open up at all. I'm sure it mainly had to do with us being on the opposite sides, but Thiago had voiced these same frustrations from very early on. Her downfall was not using her sword when she needed to. At the time she used it on Ben, it was already too late to gain an upperhand. The only thing she was to my game was a roadblock, and I spent the merge figuring out how I was going to be able to pry her loose from Thiago to get her out of the game.
Ben: His main allies were Liam, Taylor, Carly...to a lesser extent Gloria and Chad. Ben wanted to be liked. He wanted to do well in challenges. He wanted to be a strategist. He encompassed all these things. But I think one of his main drives was to get to the end and not be cut off for someone else like he was Carly in his original season. I think his biggest mistake was coming off as too threatening in challenges. We feared him, or at least I did, all the way back to the talismen challenge. His downfall, though much can be said for fierce loyalty, was remaining on a sinking ship. He and I had connected well enough to do some damage, but lines had been drawn and we knew that neither of us were flipping. I used him as a source of information. I played myself up to be the bottom of the fans alliance, and I kept up that facade throughout, to the point his argument for me to vote Thiago at the final 6 was because Bree and Thiago were controlling everything. I also used our friendship in hopes that if swords or targets came into play that I wouldn't take the brunt of them.
Liam: His main allies were Ben, Taylor, Carly...Gloria. I think he came into this game wanting to be a more leading strategist than his previous attempts. He definitely gave that vibe of one calling the shots, or at least trying to. His biggest mistake was not putting up enough smoke and mirrors. Before Thiago warned me that the vote was me at the merge, Liam basically spelled it out for me, not in so many words. His downfall was throwing you, Knox, under the bus. I cannot think, for the life of me, why he thought that would be a good play, but he did it, and that move ulimately cost the favorites the game for the final time. There was no place in my game for Liam. After the merge, I cut off communication from him because his strategy frustrated me so much.
Bree: Her main allies were Thiago, Starr, Chad, Zac, myself. I can't really say more than has already been said. She came in as a character, even kept the schtick with me up until just a round or two ago, which meant she didn't fully trust me. And I believe the schtick was fully her mistake. I really don't think her voting Starr on Farrago had any bearings on this game whatsoever. When push came to shove, all of us Fans had to work together anyway, so it was forgotten. I think her downfall was being too emotionally charged. I never planned on going to the end with her, but her remembering of the fallen was especially grating because they were so mean and hateful, so regardless of my plans, it made me want to sit by her in the finals less.
Zac: His main allies were myself, Knox, Thiago, Bree, Starr, Dion, Gabe. I believe Zac when he says he didn't come into this game intending to be UTR, but to be likable, in the know, well-connected. But it's how it turned out. His biggest mistake will have been his UTR style and not being around enough to connect with others, if it costs him the game. His downfall remains to be seen I guess. Despite how close Zac and I were as friends and in a working relationship, I did use him as a solid vote. Anything passed to Zac was passed second hand, already decided upon by Thiago and I. I knew Zac wasn't going anywhere, and I didn't have to worry about him betraying us. I didn't necessarily want to come to the end thinking that he was going to be an easy win, but our relationship, plus the fact that he was solid with me all worked itself out to this end.
Thiago: His main allies were Starr, Bree, Julian, Zac, Knox, Gabe, Gloria, Chad, myself. He came into this game wanting to be adaptable, but most importantly well-connected. Thiago is well-versed in this game to know when to take a backseat, and when to step up, when to be patient and when to force an issue. His biggest mistake was quite possibly not getting rid of me last round. His downfall remains to be seen. He was my closest ally in this game. We shared strategy and information throughout. We did things on our own. We looked out for each other. We through each other under the bus when necessary, but we mostly asked each other for permission for such cases. He didn't tell me he had promised Gloria to vote me at the merge, but he did ask my permission to get the vote switched to me when Gloria left. So we helped each other, we used each other, we used each other to play for ourselves. It's a strange dichotomy when arguing for the win of this game, but it is what it is.
As far as animosity towards you, Knox, I have no idea why it would be toward you as a person. I've not heard of that, and I have no idea why it would be. Animosity toward you as a player, I can most definitely understand. You straddled a fence between two opposing factions, and in a way, let them both down. Of course, I can appreciate good game, and one playing for themselves, but I more highly respect one being able to pull it off. I know you to want and often demand your way in games, when really, more often then not, that will get you in hot water rather than propel you to the end. And I saw that happening here. And, of course, as you were annoyed with Carly and Taylor being inactive, it was annoying others for you to be as scarce as you were at times, only to come on and demand we vote someone who was not a strategically sound vote in the grand scheme of things. So yes, I can understand the animosity. Voting off Starr when you did and possibly Thiago after her would have doomed the rest of us fans. On the flip side, you promising the favorites, and then going back on it when you go caught angered the favorites.
That's the best explanation I can give for that. And the best explanation I can give for all the people I interacted with in this game. I hope it all makes sense, and please ask is something doesn't make sense or needs clarification.
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Post by knox on May 31, 2013 16:03:20 GMT -5
Mark, you missed to do an analysis of interaction about me. If you could please add that, then I would be happy to have some comments to everyone and stuff.
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Post by mark on May 31, 2013 16:18:30 GMT -5
Holy frijole, how'd I leave you out of the mix?! I guess 'cause I was speaking to you.
Here it is:
Knox: Your main allies, Zac, Mark, Gloria, Dion. I think you wanted to come into this game laying low. I believe you had an inroad with Gloria when it was time for you two to cross paths and that was a bit of a comfort for you. I do believe you went into this game to stay loyal to the people you initally connected with also. Your mistake was not being adaptable when it came to perceiving that you were being told what to do, or pushing a moral code of eliminating not entities over actual threats. Your downfall was not being able to execute your blindside of Starr without sounding the alarms. Your purpose for my game was added protection and a vote in my pocket. Before all the alarms were sounded, my ideal final four was the four of us guys, knowing how you felt about Thiago, that would have been an ideal situation. However, after the whole incident between us about you not wanting to vote Chad, my purposes moved to more of a keep-you-contained-until-we-don't-need-you type of thing.
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Post by knox on May 31, 2013 16:55:03 GMT -5
Well this was an interesting read. Thank you to all three of you for answering so promptly. I have to say that after reading what you guys have said here and in other threads, I am very proud of the game you guys played and my vote is still very undecided. I have noticed some stuff you guys said though.
Some of the stuff you guys said about my game and those of some jury members seem off with their version, which is interesting. But it could be a point of view kind of thing.
Also, I want to know where you guys found out about my relationship with Gloria. Apparently everyone knew that we are really close outside of the game and I would like to know where that information came from.
While on that topic I do want to point out that the reason I considered siding with the fans was NOT because me and Gloria are friends. As a matter of fact, we both agreed early on that we were on different sides and that was the way it would be, we would try to help each other out and then see what happens.
The reason I wanted to swap is because you guys made me feel like I was not part of the fans, all of you. I know I wasn't the most active by any means, I have never claimed to be that, as that would be a lie. But you guys made me constantly feel like I was not important or relevant to any of your games, which apparently was somewhat true. The fans, kind of, made me feel like my opinion mattered and I was not just a goat while you guys made me feel like a goat. I didn't want to be Denise'd for going with you guys. So my relationship with Gloria outside the game had NOTHING to do with me wanting to flip. Saying that is insulting as a player.
Anyways some come-back quick questions:
Mark, what does "list bottoms" mean?
I also want you all to tell me how you genuinely feel about myself. Be as honest as you can, this will not affect my vote regardless, I want to vote for the best player not for my best friend.
Thiago, you said that I wasn't very well liked then call me a jury threat, that sounds kind of contradictory to me, care to further explain that?
I thought I had more questions, but you guys are doing a great job so far. Keep it up. Regardless of the results, I can genuinely say I hope all three of you [and a pair of the jurors] will keep in touch with me after the game is over.
~Knox.
P.S. I'm not of italian decent at all, when I said that I was still trying to play up a character that never really got off the ground.
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Post by mark on May 31, 2013 17:10:56 GMT -5
For me, figuring out your ties to Gloria was putting two and two together based on different things you had said to me and Gloria had said to Thiago without actually saying it. But we knew there was *some* connection, some way, some how for you to feel comfortable enough to switch things up. When it got down to the final 7, we could safely eliminate Liam from speculation, and Ben was honest enough with me that I knew it wasn't him. Process of elimination left Gloria. Then when we voted her out, I planned to tell you right at the deadline, and your reaction kind of sealed the deal for me.
As for pinning you to Gloria from the get go, I've never said, or thought that you planned on playing this game with her. But it had to have been of *some* degree of comfort knowing she was over there, and it had to factor into being able to trust her with your plight on the fan tribe. It's just the way it works out in these games and this small communtiy. There's no shame in it. But after knowing what I know, I'm sure you were going to remain loyal to us...in your own stubborn way, but I know you would have.
I can see where you felt like we mistreated you. The one day where we fleshed it out, I realized, and I quickly backed down. Because yes, I could see it from your perspective. And I apologized. However, if you can see from our perspective, your relative scarcity made it hard for us NOT to treat you like a goat or that your input didn't matter, especially when your input was directly against what we thought was sound strategic moves or that would put us in direct danger.
And "list bottoms" mean listing you at that bottoms of favorite listings. And you know what I mean.
And genuinely, I feel like you are a mammoth player, fiercely loyal, yet stubbornly unadaptable. This makes it very hard to work with you. As a person, you are vibrant, courteous, and very much invested in the things you do and the people you'd like to spend time with. I've observed that over time, and it is very endearing to me.
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Post by thiago on May 31, 2013 17:59:31 GMT -5
Hey Knox: To answer a couple of your follow up questions, I didn't know exactly the nature of your relationship with Gloria. I had heard rumours, and to be honest I really don't remember who told me, that you and Gloria possibly knew each other in real life. However, in the game, I knew that you were close to Gloria beyond the game for 5 reasons: 1) Gloria had told me way back on Farrago that there were 3 people in the game that she felt she had an emotional investment in that would make it difficult for her to vote them off: she said one was me, and there were 2 others but she would never tell me who. 2) You fessed up to Mark about telling the Faves about the vote, and Gloria was the one who played her idol on Ben. The fact that Gloria played it on someone, rather than transferred it to someone, indicated to me that Gloria, who I knew didn't tell many people, if any, about her idol, was directly told by someone about the vote, which we knew was you. 3) When I asked Gloria about whether you were one of the other 2 people she had an emotional investment in, she gave me a non-answer which indicated to me that you had a bond that certainly didn't form at the merge. 4) When I asked Gloria if Liam or you was lying, she sided with you over the Liam, saying Liam lied, which meant she had more loyalty to you than Liam, who she had been on a tribe with much longer, so that confirmed to me that you had to be very close, and given we had only merged for about a week or so and you had personal stuff going on, it didn't make sense for your relationship with her to be as strong as it was given you had just "met" a week ago. 5) Liam later sent me a PM of Gloria telling everyone that a fan told her they were willing to flip and that she trusted her gut that the fan was honest. She wouldn't tell the Favorites upfront who it was, which meant she was protecting them, which to me seemed strange if you two had only just met. Knox: I saw you as a potential goat because you weren't very active after the merge, not because you "weren't well liked." I don't think anyone disliked you until that move. I think you became disliked more once you turned on the Fans, but at that point I instead viewed you as a jury threat because, regardless of whether people liked that move or not, you were playing the game harder than I had been aware of. If you had made it to the end and I was on the jury, I would have certainly voted for you to win. I'm a little disappointed to hear that you felt you weren't a member of the fans because I tried with every conversation to ask your opinion and I would always share with people what you thought. After the merge your activity became confined to very late at night when many people were in bed, and luckily I was on vacation 3 timezones behind Eastern time, so I could talk to you. I'm not sure if it didn't feel genuine to you but I did genuinely want you to be a part of the team because I wanted you in at least the Top 5 at that point. It's also interesting to hear you say that you and Gloria recognized you were on opposite sides of the game. It was a very similar situation for me and her as well, where I really wanted to play with her but it didn't benefit me to join her. I really wanted to respond to a lot of Mark's statements in his answer to your question, if you don't mind. I do care for Mark on a personal level very much, but we're fighting for a win here and I think there are some incorrect statements that were made. I want to make it clear that I did not make my decision of who I wanted in the F3 until I had no more Favourites left in the game. Mark and Zac believed fully that I had every intention of taking them both to the end, but this was never a decision I mentally made. It's very possible that, given how the game may have played out, that I would have taken both Bree and Starr with me to the end. I set myself up to be in such a swing position that I had the power to do that. Sure, Mark set it up so that he didn't have to betray anyone, but he set himself up to be in a position to be betrayed. He may have not been betrayed, but if you're voting for who played the best game, Mark did not cover his bases when it came to me because he was always certain I wouldn't turn on him. Regarding Gloria, we worked very well together, but strategically it made zero sense for me to keep her. She was a boss at challenges and idol hunting. She easily would have won the final challenge and possibly even the face morph one. She would have sweeped the jury vote. Gloria and I worked with each other well on Farrago, but our use of one another died out at the middle of the merge when she was ready to vote me and Bree off with Knox, which I do believe was the plan discussed around the time of the F9 immunity challenge. I didn't idol Mark out of the kindness of my heart. It put the fans in the driver's seat. I didn't give Mark my 8/10 fish because I loved him; I game them to him because I wanted to secure him as a strong ally, and secure his loyalty to me for the rest of the game, which was most certainly unwavering. I didn't tell Mark everything. Mark didn't know that during the round Gloria went I had promised my vote to Gloria/Ben/Liam to vote him off. I had asked them to take care of me and blame the vote on Bree, which must have been convincing because they all switched their votes for Mark and Gloria didn't play her idol. I did tell Mark that I was telling them to vote for him but I asked for his "permission" after I had already locked in their votes for him, so it was already done regardless of whether he gave me the "O.K." or not. I told Mark to give the idol to Zac that round, so that if he was taken out, the idol would still be in play for my game. It was a crazy day, but Mark kept asking me whether we pull the trigger on Gloria or vote for you, Knox, and I decided to pull the trigger on Gloria because I assured him that I took care of it and Gloria felt safe enough to not play her idol, if she had one. I took Mark to the end because I wanted to beat the best. JT taking Erinn, or Kim taking Tarzan and Christina, their wins would not as respected. If I lose, I can live with that result, but the same goes for Mark: he took me to the end, and he easily would have won over Bree and Zac, so this argument of his doesn't hold. He made no moves with the consideration of taking me out before the F3. I would like to point out that I never told Mark or Zac what to do with that vote, and to be honest did not have a strong opinion. Today, I do believe it was a mistake, but hindsight is 20/20, and if I had pushed hard enough I'm certain I would have been able to keep Gabe; however, I had my own doubts and concerns about Gabe as he was eerily reserved at times, and also didn't want to poke my nose in NuReliquum's business, because that could have been viewed as offputting. There was no disagreement because I was not unhappy about it. Period. I don't see why Mark would need my consent to make himself look like an ass to the enemy. I would have encouraged him! How disobedient! The reason the Faves targetted Mark was point blank that he was good in challenges and that he failed to convince Liam of his willingness to flip when Liam offered him security. Meanwhile, I was busy working Gloria to find out who they were voting for. Gloria could have said the vote was on Winnie the Pooh and I would have given Winnie the idol. There was no sound reason for Mark to be an ass and the reason the fans took control was because of my ability to get information out of people, point blank.  I do have very strong feelings for Mark as a person, and I refuse to devalue the role he played in my game, but I do think that Mark was unable to separate his personal feelings for me from his strategic feelings, because he told me things he really didn't need to tell me. I think that Mark was so enamoured with me as an ally that he failed to see the moves I made, such as eliminating Knox over Liam, that would have allowed me to pull the trigger on him if I decided to play a cuthroat end game and take him out as a jury threat. However, I'm happy to say that I didn't and I sleep better at night knowing I didn't do that, but I always kept my options open in this game, and I believe Mark failed to do that. Thanks for grilling us man, let me know if you want more. |
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Post by knox on May 31, 2013 18:09:38 GMT -5
Thiago: I also want you all to tell me how you genuinely feel about myself. Be as honest as you can, this will not affect my vote regardless, I want to vote for the best player not for my best friend. A quick point since you addressed it, Thiago, I know you tried, and at first I was fine with it. But it wasn't really until I told Mark that I didn't fully trust you that you seemed to make the extra effort to communicate with me more often, so I appreciate the effort but it seemed transparent to me as I had hinted to flipping. So, maybe it was genuine from your part but because of how it all played out from my point of view it looked like a game move, which there is nothing wrong with it. Once again thank you both for your answers. I appreciate that you brought each other to the end as I firmly believe in going against the best in the finals. This decision is going to be really hard, regardless I respect both of your games and I would be happy to see either win. Best of luck! ~Knox |
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Post by mark on May 31, 2013 18:14:51 GMT -5
I think what happened in this game speaks for itself without beating you over the head with drawn out explanations. I think Thiago is enamored with his own grandeur to realize and about that we both equally opened ourselves up for betrayal. the pickings were ripe for me to betray him at the final 5, but I didn't for the same reasons he didn't betray me. Let's call a spade a spade and give credit where credit is due. :-)
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Post by thiago on May 31, 2013 18:15:44 GMT -5
Oh, that question was for me too? Today, I genuinely respect you. Mid-merge, I was threatened by you. Before your move, I enjoyed talking with you always, except when you were having digestive troubles one night in particular I honestly didn't start speaking with you more when Mark had told me you had made a move against the Fans, but I can see why you felt it wasn't genuine, but I was very shocked when you turned, and also really shocked that you didn't trust me, because I actively liked speaking with you and you had the best first impression out of the entire cast on Reliquum, as you'll see in my Episode 1 confessionals. We connected right off the bat, and out of all the people not involved in the 2 major Reliquum alliances, I kept the vote off you the longest because I always knew that we could connect and could become very strong allies. This is why I genuinely cared about your opinion in the Fan alliance. I hope that answers your questions! |
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Post by Zac on May 31, 2013 19:32:06 GMT -5
I think what happened in this game speaks for itself without beating you over the head with drawn out explanations. I think Thiago is enamored with his own grandeur to realize and about that we both equally opened ourselves up for betrayal. the pickings were ripe for me to betray him at the final 5, but I didn't for the same reasons he didn't betray me. Let's call a spade a spade and give credit where credit is due. :-) Let's also remember that I could have betrayed both of you as well. lol I had a good relationship with Ben, which gave me options. And the thought did cross my mind to keep the idol when Mark had given it to me and use it for my own personal gain. But I wanted to prove trustworthy, and I knew it wasn't going to be used against me anyway, and I'd have rather he played it and be more directly responsible for someone's elimination than I would have. |
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Post by Zac on May 31, 2013 20:38:00 GMT -5
The reason I wanted to swap is because you guys made me feel like I was not part of the fans, all of you. I know I wasn't the most active by any means, I have never claimed to be that, as that would be a lie. But you guys made me constantly feel like I was not important or relevant to any of your games, which apparently was somewhat true. The fans, kind of, made me feel like my opinion mattered and I was not just a goat while you guys made me feel like a goat. I didn't want to be Denise'd for going with you guys. So my relationship with Gloria outside the game had NOTHING to do with me wanting to flip. Saying that is insulting as a player. Anyways some come-back quick questions: I also want you all to tell me how you genuinely feel about myself. Be as honest as you can, this will not affect my vote regardless, I want to vote for the best player not for my best friend. Knox. I genuinely liked you and you were one of my top allies. I liked our alliance with Mark and wanted us to excel. And I'm sorry that I led you to believe that I was as in the dark as you were with the Dion vote, but we didn't want you to think that we had all abandoned you. Sure, Thiago may have thought of the idea, but I didn't have to do it if I didn't want to. And I did do it for you as well as the rest of the boys. I always did try to keep you in the loop, and I wanted to go the end with you, because I liked you and because I thought that I'd have a shot at beating you. You were very important to me. When you let the favorites know that Ben should play an idol, I was disappointed that Starr had left but I was also glad that Ben had stayed since he was the only favorite that I conversed with regularly. lol You went into hiding after that, and I still wanted to trust you, it was just a lot less. But when you were voted out, we were supposed to split the vote between you and Liam, and then in the revote, vote Liam. I told Thiago I felt more comfortable voting for Liam and not you, even if we were supposed to just vote Liam in the revote. |
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, and you were voted out. I was involved in a lot of the decision-making, and when I wasn't around, I made sure I knew what was happening. If there ever came a time that I felt that I was in danger, I'd consider changing things up, but it never had to happen. Turning on Mark and Thiago and Bree at final 6 or 7 wouldn't have helped me any. I never wanted to make enemies and I didn't have to. I was going to let Thiago and Mark take the fall. I knew that I wouldn't be able to win a lot of challenges, and I also didn't have to. People can say what they want about me and the game I played, but like you said, I'm here and they're not. 
